Thursday, April 3, 2014

Tartine Country Bread, My Way


I always like to tell people new to bread baking to choose something simple. Something that won't fail. There is nothing more fantastic than pulling that first perfect loaf of bread out of the oven. It's the one thing, the only thing that will keep you baking. My father used to say: 'You need some successes so you have a reason to keep moving forward'. Daddy was always right.

So, with this wisdom ringing in my ears, I decided to bake up two loaves, one done my old-school way with a higher levain percentage, for old time's sake, yeah, and because I think it works really well with new starters so it's easy for people new to baking. I call it my Tartine Country Bread with training wheels...


Tartine Country Bread with 250g levain (a.k.a. the 'Training Wheels' loaf)

People have difficulty with the basic Tartine bread because it's really high in hydration and uses a very small amount of starter. I am all about levain-driven bread, but the starter amount must be ample to make our loaves rise properly, so even my bread below using a smaller starter/levain amount is higher than Tartine's, and I think this is as low as I am willing to go. After, all, our starter is our bread, so it deserves a presence. As well, remember that large bakeries work with a different set of variables, so we must be vigilant in our efforts to adapt our breads to our environment. Tartine has their own method for producing high-hydration breads, so you may and should adjust your hydration to fit your environment. Even using this blog where loaves are tested several times before they make it to the page, one must be able to adapt one's hydration levels and one's fermentation times because my environment is different than yours. You can adapt hydration levels in any bread by first using a little less than what a formula calls for. Once you mix up the dough, you can add more if it feels like it needs it. You can also let it autolyse and add more water during the salt-addition stage. This double hydration method allows you to achieve proper hydration unfailingly. I constantly adapt my formulae to suit the weather or the type/age of my flour. Hone your skills of adaptation and you can make any bread you like, in any weather, at any time.

(FYI, bakeries use large mixers to make their breads, and this develops gluten much more successfully with high-hydration doughs than using the hand method. We will be experimenting with this in some near future posts, but you might try using a mixer to develop the gluten in your high-hydration doughs to see if you can create a Tartine country loaf that is closer in taste and texture to Chad's).

Given all that, next I baked one for when newbies have gathered more confidence, one with a smaller levain. And lo! She ended up looking like the most gorgeous moon.


Tartine Country Bread with 150g levain (a.k.a. 'La Bella Luna') 

Training Wheels grew fabulous ears, and La Bella Luna left my friends moonstruck by her beauty. Both were fabulous in flavor with a light crumb texture, and each yielded an uber shattery crust. Hooray!

Oh how we struggled at the start but today we can do this one with our eyes closed. Damn we're good.

P.S., you don't have to be a newbie to make these two loaves. They are equally as fabulous for bakers with lots of loaves under their belts.

Have a look.

Training Wheels Loaf
This formula makes one loaf

MAKE YOUR LEVAIN

You will need:

50g 100% hydration dark rye starter (mine is made with BRM home-milled dark rye flour)
50g Community Grains hard red winter wheat flour
50g KA all-purpose flour
100g room temperature water

Mix the levain ingredients together until you reach a paste. It will be thinnish, like this:




Mine fermented for 7 hours and 20 minutes. You will know when it's ready, because it will look like this:




DOUGH DAY

You will need:

All of the levain
450g KA Bread flour
50g Community Grains hard red winter wheat flour
330g h2o
12g Diamond kosher salt

When your levain is properly fermented, mix together the levain, the flours, and the h2o until you reach a shaggy mass. It will look like this:



Autolyse for 2 hours.

After the autolyse, the dough should have expanded and look smooth and elastic like this:



Squish the salt into the dough until it's fully incorporated work the dough into a smooth mass. Now it's time for the 4-hour bulk fermentation (I got a phone call toward the end of my bulk and mine fermented for 4 hours and 30 minutes! But it was fine. Yours will ferment for about 4 hours).

Every half hour, perform a series of turns throughout the entire bulk fermentation, taking care not to deflate the dough as you near the end of bulk.

When bulk fermentation is accomplished, turn the dough out onto a workspace dusted with brown rice flour, and shape into a loose round. Let it rest. Drape with a damp paper towel to keep it from forming a skin. Mine rested for 10 minutes. 

After the bench, shape the dough into a taut boule and pop into a banneton or a bowl lined with linen that you have dusted with brown rice flour.

Pop in the fridge and ferment. Mine fermented for 16 hour and 23 minutes.

BAKE DAY

Preheat the oven to 500 with a dutch oven and baking stone inside.

Dust the dough lightly with brown rice flour then unearth by placing a sheet of parchment over the mouth of the dough bowl, then place a peel over this and quickly invert the bowl so that the dough ends up sitting on the paper and the peel, seam side down.

Slash the dough in some divine manner, then slide it into the shallow half of the hot dutchie. Cover with the fat half, slide it into the oven, and steam for 15 minutes at this temp, then turn the oven down to 475 and steam for another 15 minutes.

After the steam, remove the fat end of the dutchie, then stack the pan over its mouth to create a buffer between the hot stone and the bread. This will help keep the bottom of your bread from blackening.

Toggle the oven between 460 and 475 until the boule is baked to desired darkness. I find that it's almost impossible to go as dark as Chad's without drying out the loaf in a home oven. So I aim for chestnut-colored.

Cool on a wire rack for at least an hour before slicing.

Training Wheels (are hot)





La Bella Luna
This formula makes one loaf

MAKE YOUR LEVAIN

You will need:

10g 100% hydration dark rye starter (mine is made with BRM home-milled dark rye flour)
75g BRM home-milled hard red spring flour (**you can use hard red winter wheat flour here too)
75g room temperature h2o, mine was 71 degrees

Mix the levain ingredients together until you reach a paste. Mine fermented for 6 hours 30 minutes. 

DOUGH DAY

You will need:

All of the levain
450g KA Bread flour
50g BRM home-milled hard red spring flour (**you can use hard red winter wheat flour here too)
377g h2o, mine was 72 degrees
12g Diamond kosher salt

When your levain is properly fermented, mix together the levain, the flours, and the h2o until you reach a shaggy mass.

Autolyse for 1 hour 15 minutes.

After autolyse, squish the salt into the dough until it's fully incorporated work the dough into a smooth mass. Now it's time for the 4-hour bulk fermentation (mine actually fermented for 4 hours 23 minutes because the dough was a little on the small side. It needed a little more time).

Every half hour, perform a series of turns throughout the entire bulk fermentation, taking care not to deflate the dough as you near the end of bulk.

When bulk fermentation is accomplished, turn the dough out onto a workspace dusted with brown rice flour, and shape into a loose round. Let it rest. Drape with a damp paper towel to keep it from forming a skin. Mine rested for 25 minutes. 

After the bench, shape the dough into a taut boule and pop into a banneton or a bowl lined with linen that you have dusted with brown rice flour.

Pop in the fridge and ferment. Mine fermented for 20 hours.

BAKE DAY

Preheat the oven to 500 with a dutch oven and baking stone inside.

Dust the dough lightly with brown rice flour then unearth by placing a sheet of parchment over the mouth of the dough bowl, then place a peel over this and quickly invert the bowl so that the dough ends up sitting on the paper and the peel, seam side down.

Slash the dough in some divine manner, then slide it into the shallow half of the hot dutchie. Cover with the fat half, slide it into the oven, and steam for 15 minutes at this temp, then turn the oven down to 475 and steam for another 15 minutes.

After the steam, remove the fat end of the dutchie, then stack the pan over its mouth to create a buffer between the hot stone and the bread. This will help keep the bottom of your bread from blackening.

Toggle the oven between 460 and 475 until the boule is baked to desired darkness. I find that it's almost impossible to go as dark as Chad's without drying out the loaf in a home oven. So I aim for chestnut-colored.

Cool on a wire rack for at least an hour before slicing.

La Bella Luna!

To the staff of life!

66 comments:

  1. I have been inhaling your blog lately, I started my sourdough journey last year in the States with a purchased starter from King Arthur Flour and I was making Tartine's Country Loaf weekly and was so pleased with the results. Now I have moved to Ireland and have attempted starting my own wild yeast starter. It has been much more challenging as I haven't gotten the results I wanted and after a bunch of research I think I will try converting it to a rye starter as you have suggested! I've learned so much from your blog, the climate and flour of Ireland is unique and sourdough is more of a challenge here. I was about ready to give up, there is a reason that Irish soda bread is the standard here (as it doesn't have to rely on yeast) but I'm going to give a rye starter a go and hope for better results.

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    1. That is so interesting! I wonder why it poses challenges? I would love to know more. I will have to do some research. Let me know what happens with your rye starter!

      xo

      fo

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    2. My understanding is that Ireland's climate is too wet and cool to grow hard wheat, so the wheat that grows here is softer and not as amenable to sourdough! People who do bread baking often import bread flour from France. I was using a local very coarse stoneground whole wheat blended 50:50 with white bread flour for my sourdough starter and it was quite sluggish. My rye has been going for a week or so, we'll see how it goes!

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    3. Perhaps invest in a 50-lb bag of flour for your white flour, from a reputable company of course, and you can probably continue to get other flours (rye etc) at your local market to experiment. I wish you all the best. Keep me posted! (One of my best friends has been living in Ireland for 15 years. She is returning the the United States this year. She adores Ireland, but I'm glad to have her back!)

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  2. France,
    I tried posting previously and lost the entire post cuz I had not signed up through google whatever, thought I was brave doing Face Book. Anyway.

    I'm new to your blog, but absolutely love it. I am not new to bread baking, having tried to re-create Acme's (of Berkeley) Pain au Levain back in the late 90's with very little success. I had some better success later in time (used grapes from Champagne to begin a starter) , but it was not until the savior Chad came along (his wife is a magician too, and Tartine Bakery is the holy grail) that I really began to understand. I, unlike you, would like to open a bakery at some point. For now I practice artisanal home baking with a passion, but not quite matched by your passion (taken to a whole new level). Anyway, enough about me.

    I'm enquiring about your Country Loaf My Way. You set out to reduce the amount of levain from your training wheels loaf to La Bella Luna. However, the levain mixtures are different between the two loaves. You reduced the amount of starter by 80% (50g to 10 g) and the flour by 25% (100g to 75g) and the water by 25% (100g to 75g) between the levain for the training wheels loaf to that for La Bella Luna.

    Both the loaves turned out beautiful. But, I'm curious as to why you did not keep the levain mixtures the same between the two loaves and just reduce the amount of levain you used (e.g., from 200g to 160g)? Was this a conscious decision? If so, what was your reasoning?

    I will follow your blog closely. You do some amazing work.

    Cheers��

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    1. Well, may as well just make a smaller levain instead of a large one, then tossing some of it I guess. I hope I am answering this correctly. I reduced the amount of levain in all of my my breads. Less levain reliant, and more skill put into fermentation. I no longer need so much levain to make bread, hence the name 'training wheels'. :)

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  3. Success at last..I wanted you to know how invaluable your help/blog was in helping me conquer my fear/difficulty with bread baking. I have always wanted to make bread, even when I cooked for a living it was always something I knew I was drawn to but I couldn't ever feel confident doing.. I experimented over the years but always felt like my efforts fell flat and had trouble maintaining a starter properly.

    Low and behold your 100% rye starter technique is the bomb, it makes me feel like a fermentation superhero, it took quickly and is so forgiving, the levain made with it is very vigorous. I finally made the Tartine training wheel loaf over the weekend after owning the bloody Tartine book since it was released and never having the courage to pull through it. I found the dough so responsive, everything went so well, I had to refrigerate halfway during the bulk fermentation because of an emergency, I resumed afterwards and hoped for the best and was rewarded with some of the most beautiful bread to grace my oven. It was a little flatter and the crumb a bit tighter because of my compromises but still so flavorful. I feel confident now that I can start working towards refining my technique but that it is totally possible for me to produce the type of bread I have been dreaming of making.

    Thank you so much

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    1. What a beautiful note Franck. You inspired the next post :)

      Keep me posted with your bread successes, I'm glad I was here to help!

      xo

      fo

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  4. Hi France! thanks for such amazing recipes!

    I had a question regarding the flour. I saw you use the KA bread flour and checking on their page it has 12.7% of protein. I am baking in Sweden and the only organic bread flour I can find has only 10.5% of protein, but lately I have not been able to find it and can just find the regular all-purpose one. From one of the brands it has 8% of protein and from the other brand that I have now at home, they don't specify the protein content, but my guess is also below 10%. If I ought to use your recipe but with all-purpose flour instead of the bread flour, do you have any tips on modifications to recipe? Also, you use the community grains flour. Which flour could I substitute it for?

    Thanks for the help!

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    1. Well, I have used all purpose flour in many of my breads, but I do have access to all purpose flours that have a very high protein percentage. Hm. My suggestion would be mail order. Try to find a company that stocks a flour (either all purpose or bread) with at least 11% protein and buy up a bunch of that. All purpose flour in general is fine for breads. In fact, it makes a lovely soft crumb and I use it a lot in my bread baking. You can try to increase the protein percentage by adding a little whole wheat or whole white wheat to your dough. These will contain much higher protein than the bread/all purpose flour that you have access to and that will help a bit. I say just go for it and see what you get. There is no way to know what kind of bread that your 8-10% flour will produce, and you have nothing to lose, right? Experimentation leads to wonderful things. As for substituting Community Grains, it's just whole wheat flour, so, any whole wheat flour that you have access to should be fine. Good luck, and let me know how it all turns out!

      France

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    2. Thanks! I will do that, but first I will give it a try with the flour I have now and see how it goes. I was going to try this week to bake but the days are soooo hot and I am having between 28C to 30C inside my apartment now so will try to bake when the temperature goes down a bit. I will let you know how it went. thanks again!

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  5. dear girl meets rye,

    your tartine t.w. loaf's levain was ready to go in 7 hours 20 minutes. can you please tell me what the ambient temp was in that room? thanks.

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    1. Hey David. I don't know. I made that loaf so long ago. I do try to always suggest that people follow fermentations times (from levain through final) based on their set of variables. Some are done in 6 hours, some can go for 9.... Use your sound judgement!

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  6. thanks. so, one other thing, please: i launched your 100% hydration dark rye starter about three weeks ago. 30g:30g:30g. never fridged, always at 74-82 degrees, fed 9am and 9pm as you say. but, it's much older than nine days at this point. i'm going for the t.w. loaf this friday/saturday. thing is, upon feeding time, for the starter, it's really, really acidic smelling... like smelling salts acidic (slight exaggeration). tangier to the taste, but man, you jump back if you stick your nose in the jar. but it looks like yours with lively bubbles. have i killed lacto parts? have i killed the whole thing? i'm fine with starting over. my 100% hydro healthy kaf bread flour/wheat mix starter smells much lovelier, creamy, tangy, mildly acidic. what do you think (please and thanks)?

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    1. hm. hard for me to comment upon because i think it's all so subjective. what may smell super acidic to you might smell normal to me. sourdough starter DOES smell sour. i hate all this 'sweet smelling' description that you read about. it's sour smelling. that's why we call it sourdough. i think it's misleading to describe sourdough starter as smelling of sugar and spice and everything nice.

      as long as you have activity (visually speaking) youre fine. as long as there is no mold, you're all good. try feeding it 3x a day to reduce some acid smell if it bothers you. trying baking up two identical loaves using one each starter and see what you get. see which you prefer, and chuck the one that does not produce sound results.

      at the end of the day, if the acid smell of your rye starter is alarming, pitch it. there are scores of people who prefer white/whole wheat. i prefer rye, so i write about it. it's all a matter of preference. either one will make fine bread. cheers!

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    2. thank you. i'm going for it... i'm using it... and good idea about baking two to compare. thanks again for the guiding words.

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  7. What a gorgeous blog! I am a beginner trawling Google for help - will be bookmarking this page!
    Jo
    www.helloseedling.blogspot.co.uk

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  8. Where art thou? I miss your posts, photos and insights!

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  9. Hello - I'd love to try one of these recipes, but I don't understand what you mean by "After the steam, remove the fat end of the dutchie, then stack the pan over its mouth to create a buffer between the hot stone and the bread." Specifically "stack the pan over its mouth." Can you elaborate please?

    thanks!

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    1. Ok, so there is the shallow end and the fat end of the dutch oven. when you pull the fat end off of the loaf, after the 30 minute steam, instead of just sliding the loaf of bread (shallow end) back in the oven, put the fat end on the peel, then stack the shallow pan holding the bread on top of it. so that there is a 'buffer' between the loaf bottom and the baking stone. hope that helps!

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    2. So do you mean the lid and the base of the DO? I have 3. One has a shallow end and a deep lid (la cloche) and the other has 2 pretty equal sections (romertopf type) and the 3rd is a lodge cast iron DO with a deep base and pretty shallow lid that won't support the base. I suppose I could just leave out this step, couldn't I?

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    3. Hi Ivy. I have a Lodge combo cooker with a fat part and a skinny part (like a frying pan). I bake in the frying pan part, and the lid is the fat part. When the steam is done, I remove the FAT part that is the LID, and i place it beneath the skinny pan that the bread is baked in so that the skinny part with the pan is not in direct contact with the stone, thus, preventing scorched bottoms. I hope this helps. I do have photos on the blog that show this, but I can't remember which ones. I am not sure how to better describe what I am talking about. :( Sorry.

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  10. I know I'm late to the game on this post, but...where do you get your bowls? They're great! (pics are fantastic, too).

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  11. Hey does it really matter if it's dark rye starter? I feed my starter with rye flour buts its not dark rye.

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    1. Yeah. Use dark if you can. It has more sugar and enzymes. But if light rye works for you, go for it!

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    2. Thank you so much for the reply. Last question I do not have access to BRM home-milled hard red spring flour, what substitutes would you recommend? Would KA Bread flour due or what should I use?

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    3. I liked BRM all purpose and if using King Arthur, depending on the loaf, I like All purpose (for primarily white loaves), and KA bread flour for loaves with higher percentages of whole grains. I use Giusto's artisan flour exclusively now. You can order online. Even with shipping comes out to be like a buck more per bag than KA or BRM.

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  12. In the Training Wheels recipe you ask for Hard Red WINTER What Flour while in the La Bella Luna you ask for Hard Red SPRING Flour is this correct? What if I only have one of those? What kind of changes would I need to make to the recipes at hand, can you be specific about any substitutes?

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    1. Most people have hard red winter. It's fine to use in either recipe :)

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    2. (spring is very hard to find, usually)

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    3. Thank you so much! For the training wheels recipe you say you need to stretch and fold every 30 minutes, when do you perform the 1st stretch and fold after mixing in the salt?

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    4. you know, now i only do a couple of stretch and folds. i usually do it within an hour after salt. after 30 minutes is not necessary. be flexible and sort of 'go with the flow' with the stretch and folds. that practice is not what strengthens the dough. that only lines up the gluten strands so that you get max oven rise, and you can accomplish this with 3 - 4 series within the bulk, so, an hour after salt, an hour and a half, two hours, two and a half hours. essentially that's all you need. its the acid in the levain/starter that strengthen the dough. in the beginning of bread making i was really fastidious about the time with stretch and folds and now i'm loose and easy. I've also just discovered a new trick with levain and may do a single post just for that. i have some time in the upcoming weeks, so, you may see a new post about how to deal with extending a levain. thank you for writing. this has reminded me that sharing this information is useful because people still use the site!

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    5. Absolutely keep posting, the bread world needs you as do I.

      I was wondering if you could help me with two things.

      1. Do you have any advice for pre-shaping high hydration dough? I use my hand and dough scraper but often the dough stick to the dough scraper as I pull it out from underneath the dough.

      2. Do you have any advice for how to build strength in high-hydration dough? I stretch and fold religiously 3 times every 15 min and 3 times every 30 min and my dough just doesn't want to hold its shape, as you mentioned the stretch and fold is more for the rise.

      I am experimenting with 87% hydration recipe and cannot get it right the dough just does not get strong enough and during the pre-shape I have a tendency of ripping the thin membrane when trying to build tension.

      Thank you so much for your help and you recipe turned out absolutely beautifully!!!!!

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    6. Hello! for reshaping without stickage, try olive oiling your hands if your dough is to be rested with olive oil rather than rice flour (i.e., focaccia), or sprinkling rice flour over the boule to shape. no sticking guaranteed. swift movements too. so, shape shape shape, flick the scraper beneath the dough to lift it and put it onto your awaiting cloth/basket. one deft movement. 2) if your starter is pretty young, you will achieve flattish loaves. be patient. as it gets older, the better the oven spring and more open the crumb. also, high hydration loaves are a little flatter than those that use less water, and the less hydrated the loaf, the more prominent the 'ears'. also, are you using your combo cooker?? this keeps the shape of the dough. very hard IMPOSSIBLE to get great oven spring in a (cheap) apartment oven. just fyi. it's not you. trust me. keep working with your dough. pull back on hydration and master it. then move up in increments, small ones, mastering as you go. you WILL get to your high hydration loaf with good oven spring in time. keep working at it! dough is a forever thing! xo

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    7. Still following you for years. I have my rye starter going now since 10/2012 and I'm a firm believer in it!Got Chad's No. 3 book and wanted to get into whole grains, but I couldn't decide between doing your loaves or chad's based on circumstance. I grind my own grains and that is a subject on it's own which is overwhelming to me,(Sprouting berries, green flour, resting flour for weeks) but a curious challenge. So I ended up doing chad's Wheat-rye 20%. No sprouting the Rye berries this time. Autolyse was 9 hrs. The float test didn't work. My 2nd mistake was High-extraction Wheat flour, I grind my own white soft wheat on fine and sifting didn't give any left over bran? Was my screen too big? Forging ahead anyway, and adding the salt with the levain, the turns did not give me soft and billowy and the dough was cold. I decided to try a lid for the rest of the 2 hour bulk ferment. Everyone always say's I should become a baker and get my own shop. My version of Ms. Prueitt's sweets have done well, but I don't want a shop, I just want to understand my mistakes with bread. I will never get perfection...your far closer in understanding and in baking them I am, but will practice help? I keep trying.

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    8. (sorry for the typos, i am actually in school now and just came across your email by happenstance, but i should be doing my homework right now!)

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    9. (one more thing, i NEVER do float tests. they never worked for me, plus i always felt like i was wasting my levain! remember, what works for one may not work for the other. chad has his system dialed in, i have mine dialed in, and other bakers have theirs fine-tuned to their environment/energy. the goal is to make great bread, so if someone's method is not working for you, ditch it and go for something else that will work. my own skills are basically a hodgepodge of half-read information, but mostly trial and error. chad is the bread god with his bread, it's up to you to be the bread goddess of YOUR OWN method/style/loaf outcome ;)

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    10. Lynn! Practice practice practice and remove some variables. Start with the very, very simple loaves on my blog and then start working with freshly milled flour and bolting. My advice is to get a few simple loaves out of the oven, some that you can be proud of! Nothing kills the baking spirit more than loaves that don't work. I totally get your frustration. When you make a few amazing simple loaves, then experiment with extended autolyse (btw, I don't do the extended autolyse like Chad does. Too much time for me that I don't feel makes the bread better. I will do 2 hour autolysis, in fact, I do them most often in my own kitchen to date, but then I reduce my bulk fermentation time. So, if bulk and autolyse is 5 hours, I would do 2 hours autolyse, then 3 hours bulk). Chad is an advanced baker. His team is as advanced as he is. Keep that in mind of your loved don't come out well. Especially in the beginning. I don't remember how long it took me, but it was quite a while before I was making consistently amazing breads. They got better and better by increments. So don't feel badly about yourself i you don't get it right with even several loaves. He has been doing this for years, with a very strong sourdough culture (very old) and he traveled the world learning bread! It's hard to be as educated as that even by reading his books. I think there is also a loss in translation. It's hard for him to know (I think) now, because he is a serious expert, what a 'true novice', or 'true home baker' knows and doesn't. I personally think his breads are better for people who have some experience. I had trouble with his formulate in the beginning, but now I don't, partially because my starter is strong, partially because I know how to read my dough, and mainly because I know my environment really well, so, I used Chad's formulae (when I bake his breads) as a starting point, then tweak them from there. I was a chef for years, and I take for granted what people know and don't know in the kitchen. There are people who don't know the things I consider basic/intuitive. So, there is a loss in translation for sure between people who have been doing something for a long time and newbies. I'm in fashion design school. I have a bit of skill under my belt from going to pattern drafting school years ago, and the things I think are basic, the new pattern students are having a hard time grasping. It's just a matter of time, effort and continued education. Yeah, I go into detail about milling and bolting, but your screen might be too coarse. I also use many different gauges of screen when I am bolting from coarse to very fine. If you need any help, reach out again. And honestly, milling grain will become like putting on a pot of water for tea in no time flat. You just have to nail your basic, keep your starter strong, keep practicing, bake weekly for sure, and keep doing things you KNOW will come out well (like my city bread or my potato bread), those successes will boost your confidence, and the feel of those perfect doughs will help you deepen your 'intuition' with further, more complex breads. xo

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  13. I really love your page, lovely in every way! As many times as I've baked a good loaf of sourdough via the Tartine method, I *still* don't quite know when my bulk ferment is complete. It's never super clear to me. And it does not puff up and become "billowy" the way the photos in the book show. Please let me know how you are sure your bulk is complete. That would really help. Meanwhile, I'll be back for more reading. Happy baking! Thanks!

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    1. Doesn't have to puff up enormously. IN fact, some loaves that didn't puff up during bulk or even final came out with some of the best oven rise I've seen. I just go by timing, honestly. I've gone over the 5 hour mark by only about 30 minutes a couple of times, but I keep it at 5 hours. That seems to be the magic number (4 hours bulk plus 1 hour auto, or 3 hours bulk with 2 hours auto...). How is your final bread? If you get good oven rise, don't worry about it! x

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    2. I think I finally just noticed this response! And thank you for making me realize that enormous puff-up is not the goal. Yesterday, I came to this realization that I was waiting a bit too long and exhausting my dough during bulk. With your La Bella Luna recipe (which i doubled, we're having guests tonight) I auto'd for about 40-60 min, did a turn every 30 min for 3 hours and let it sit untouched until it was a bit expanded and jiggly and then stopped. Turned out really nice after an overnight in the fridge.

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  14. Thanks for your awesome blog France! It has been very helpful for my baking learning curve. Out of curiosity, how long could you do a warm extended autolyse? I know on your former blog where Chad was a guest, he left his at room temp for 8hrs. Have you tried pushing it longer? Would it be detrimental to the dough?

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    1. Hey there! I only do up to 2, sometimes 2.5 hours for autolyse now. I am too busy for extended autolyses. I DO factor that time into my bulk. So, if bulk plus autolyse is 5 hours, I do either 1 hour auto/4 hours bulk, 2 hours auto/3 hours bulk, 2.5 hours auto, 2.5 hours bulk etc. etc. I would stay start short and work your way up an hour at a time. There is a point where you can't push past. You will know when you reach that if you do hour increments extending. You might get to 6 hours and see that the final bread declines a bit. I would stop there, then go back to less than 6 hour autolyses, for example. Cheers! xo

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  15. Hi, it's 2017 and I hope you're still baking...i just pulled two loaves of La Bella Luna out of the oven to great success. Please keep posting! If you're still here, can you please answer one thing...my bottom crust is usually pretty hard to cut through. Is that true for you? I have upgraded my knife and it's still a bit tough. Other than that, I've been really happy with your recipes and pics...just lovely! Happy summer baking!

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    1. Hi Nancy! I bake for friends now, but I don't do posts anymore and have not in at least... 2 years?? I'm so glad Bella Luna came out for you! I remember baking that bread :) Are you using the lid (the deep part) as a buffer? So, when you pull off the lid after steam, you should nest the shallow pan holding the bread over the lid. This creates a buffer and the bottom crust will stay golden and *shouldn't* be hard to cut at all. Let me know!

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    2. here is how i word things on the blog so that people really do use the top part of the combo set as a buffer: Slash or snip the dough in a pattern of your choosing, then slide the dough into the shallow half of the combo cooker, pop on the lid and bake for 15 minutes at 500 degrees. After 15 minutes, lower the temp to 475 and bake for 15 more. After this 15, take the lid off of the combo cooker, and nestle the shallow half into its mouth. This will create a buffer between the hot stone and the bread's butt, and keep it from burning. Ohh and ahh at your oven spring and your perfectly steamed loaf.

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    3. Thanks again, i'll try the combo cooker inversion method and see if that helps. All the best to you.

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    4. Dude, your recipes are the best. I have two right out of the oven this morning and they may be my prettiest yet. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise!

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    5. what is the difference in the final dough between using less starter vs more starter for levain? so far, the la bella luna with less is working just great for me, but i'm curious.

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    6. Haha. Nancy, you're the best. I am toying with restarting the blog.... :)
      Um, think of using more starter as a crutch. Training wheels. The more you use, the more 'guaranteed' the result of the fermentation. When you use less, your skill comes into play. You learn to read your dough. Moving in and out of the fridge, finding the best place in the house for fermentation, learning by touch and sight how the dough is progressing. You become a badass when it comes to dough. Use less and your dough prowess will increase. ALSO, using less means the flavor of the bread is more pure, more developed, where those using higher percentages of starter are not as nuanced, not as sophisticated. More starter can lend to 'tinny' tasting breads, too-sour breads. All that acid hides the flavor that you are trying to coax out of the dough during fermentation. Less is best for sure. Beginners do well using more, and as they become more skilled they can decrease the amount and start to finesse their breads and bring about the best flavor. I am so glad the recipes are working! Thank you for always being a voice and a supporter. I appreciate it! xoxoxoxo

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    7. please restart your blog. my friend and fellow musician, Circe Link, is also a home baker, she's the only other person i geek with about bread, so I will definitely let her know you may be back blogging. it's nice to know you're out there. We're all in L.A. btw.

      yes, the flavor is really good so maybe that's due to the lower starter percentage. it's all a lot less mysterious by now, but i am still just baking boule's and not really venturing out into other shapes, baguettes, etc. My family is just as satisfied with what comes out of the dutch oven!

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    8. Have you visited Repulique's amazing bakery? You totally should if you have not, incredible pastries! Gorgeous breads (too expensive, but who cares, since we bake bread ourselves, good for ideas though...).

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    9. I have a boule in the oven as we speak, and another dough fermenting. The weather has been so hot here! So, lots of longer bulk ferments in the fridge. I've done baguettes and batards,but I have a cheap oven (I'm in an apartment rental, alas...) and there is no way to keep steam inside of it, so, the shapes always bleed out. So, I stick to boules. When I can get a better oven that will hold steam, I can do other shapes, but don't even bother unless you have a great oven with a very tight seal. I've tried every method and gotten burned quite a bit, because dumping water in a hot oven results in disaster 99% of the time! So cool that you guys are digging the blog. It makes me happy when people write to tell me things are going well with it/their bakes. Actually, quite a few people have emailed me and said they started their bakeries using some of my recipes! That is the coolest compliment ever, and makes me really happy I did the blog, my little labor of love :) Happy baking this week, it's supposed to be hot. I think we are in for a long hot summer, so keep space in the fridge! Yay! I'll have to check out Circe Link! Nice to hear you are fellow Angelenos! x

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    10. (checking you out on youtube as we speak, you go sister! You're a fantastic musician!) x

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    11. (how are your bottoms coming out now with the pan stacking method?)

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  16. Thanks for checking out my music, much appreciated! And your blog really did seem like a labor of love, but it definitely continues to inspire so keep the old posts up! my crust bottoms are still a little tough, not sure if that's due to my shaping technique or what (which i tried to stay really light handed with this time around) but in general, my crusts aren't super shattery, they are a bit on the chewy side once the evening rolls around and they aren't fresh from the oven. It's more of a general annoyance than anything else. I have not been to Republique but lived in that neighborhood when La Brea Bakery/Campanile was new, back in the early 90s. I used to love sitting in that courtyard in the mornings! I look forward to that mega Tartine Manufactory in DTLA, though! -- i'm not sure exactly when it opens.

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    1. Well, crust does not stay shattery very long. As the day goes on, it will start to absorb some of the moisture within the bread and become more pliable. That happens to ALL breads, not just yours. If you bought a loaf from Tartine, it would not be shattery by the end of the day. Don't feel bad. Yeah, I heard about Chad opening something up in L.A. I dont really keep up on the 'bread scene' because I bake my own, so, don't really need to know, ya know? Bread is so expensive, I can't imagine having to buy it. I just wouldn't, I guess. It's flour and water! Hm, I wonder why your bottoms are tough. Do you have an electric or gas oven? Have you tried raising the rack up one level? I have a double layer of baking stones on my center rack, just fyi. If you don't already, get a couple of baking stones and pop them in there. That's a must, actually. And the rack should be dead center the oven. Another thing to try, tear off a big sheet of parchment and quadruple it, instead of just using the one layer that my recipes call for. That 4 layer should create a nice buffer between the loaf and the iron. My bottom stay golden and shattery, never tough or black. I do know if I want to gift a loaf that has a shattery crust, I always time it so that it comes out of the oven just before I am about to gift it to someone, so that within 2 hours it gets sliced and its shattery. So, I do subconsciously time things out, knowing that if I bake a loaf early in the day, within a few hours it will be pliable. So, don't trip sis! That's the way bread is :)

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  17. Thanks, i do have the rack low with a pizza stone but will raise it to center and fold up the parchment and report back. Thanks, will stop tripping now :) Funny, last summer when in SF with my kids, i pre ordered two Tartine loaves and was justified they weren't shattery by the evening, sort of made me feel like I was doing something right. The croissants though, i won't even try -- i don't jump to superlatives, but they were THE BEST EVER.

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  18. Dear France, I've been fruitlessly adjusting timings and quantities and hydrations for my new (old) flat's crappy oven and failing to get even a whisper of oven spring for weeks and weeks, I just wanted to let you know this recipe WORKED. I've had stretches of doing Tartine bread before in different kitchens with better ovens and they never did this well – definitely a step forward. Thank you for writing this post!

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    1. This thrills me to no end! YOU ARE WELCOME!

      xo

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  19. Hi! Are you still here? i just started baking again after forever

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  20. Brilliant blog, thank you! I wanted to ask - once you have a rye starter going and keep it in the fridge, do you take it out the night before and need to refresh it with rye before doing the 10g rye + WW + bread flour for the levain? Or can you build the levain with cold 100% rye starter? Thank you!

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    1. Hey there. Actually, I don't refrigerate my starter. I keep a backup in the fridge just in case something happens with my starter, which I keep on the counter and have for 10 years, feeding it 2x a day every single day without fail. IF you wanted to keep your starter in the fridge, it would only be because you don't bake very often. In that case, you would pull it out of the fridge and feed it for 4 full days, 2x a day before you can bake with it or your bakes will not work. If you can, keep your starter on the counter and feed it every day. Even if you bake only one day a week, you should feed it 2x a day daily. The only time I feed it once a day only is if I don't anticipate baking for a while because I'm too busy, say, for a few weeks. But as soon as I want to start baking again, I resume twice a day feedings and after an extended period of time of feeding it only once a day, I will have to feed it 2x a day for at least 4 days in order to get it strong enough to bake with. Refrigerating starters will result in more erratic baking with inconsistent results. I hope all of this helps! xo

      Instagram: @girlmeetsrye

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  21. I am new to this but may have just read both of your blogs for hours on end the last few days. I know your methods have changed a few times but I was curious on this recipe do you recommend 2 hours bulk at room temp and 2 hours in the fridge? I think the second 2 hours are no turns? Also I've seen the videos you recommended for shaping and saw the one of you doing cuts. It would be cool to get more into detail on all that in one post on the new blog.

    Also for the bulk do you recommend keeping it in an oven around 75 to 80 or would room temp be ok around 70 to 72? I'm not far from you in North County San Diego so even in the winter it's not too cold.

    You are amazing, I can't understand why you don't have a few books out already. - Thanks, Nick

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Hey. So, I answer all of my comments, but it may take me a few days to get to it. Go ahead and leave a comment or ask a question and I will respond the best I can!